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Post by spawnkill on Aug 28, 2013 20:11:06 GMT -5
In this thread I'll be posting any and all updates on my Tiger I build. Toxin is my right hand man in helping develop some of the more technical aspects of the build more so dimensions and a helping hand than anything but I'll be actually doing the most as far a actually building the thing. Money is always an issue and time as well, so don't expect anything anytime soon, but it WILL happen, mark my words! Here are some of the things to look forward to as far as some features for this tank:
1. All aluminum skin w/ access hatches to vital mechanical areas of the vehicle.
2. Large scale, with a Chevy S10 as a chassis for the base of the tank to built on. (the only thing we have in our possession)
3. Fully functioning track system with a hydraulic skid steer drive forward and reverse, 0o turning radius.
4. 360o motorized rotating turret (removable).
5. "Bells and whistles" as far as lights and loud speakers and accessories to make it look good and just fun stuff.
As of right now this is just an idea I'm working to get a price tag to get started whilst working with Toxin to get a technical drawing made up so I can start pricing out how much material I'm going to need. I also need a bunch of tools primarily a welder capable of doing aluminum (not cheap). So like I said before, don't expect anything anytime soon, but it WILL happen, mark my words!
Any questions or input or just chit chat on this particular idea feel free to talk about it.
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Tiger I
Aug 28, 2013 20:44:03 GMT -5
Post by hardboy on Aug 28, 2013 20:44:03 GMT -5
Wow it sounds amazing. Aluminum is really cool idea. I think you need a TIG welder for that. Those start at $600. I whish I had the time and money for a great project like that. On that note. I have a half finished canon that I built for Toxin. It has a steel chamber and a ((special valve)). Also comes with a electrical fire control box. I'm sure he would not mind if you guys use it for your project. PM me for the details.
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Post by twotoedsnapper on Aug 28, 2013 22:00:47 GMT -5
If you're gonna have a frame made of steel angle (mounted to the truck chasis), you can attach the aluminum skin with pop rivets and some sort of sealant in between (for waterproofing.). They should work well, look cool, and save on time and money.
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Tiger I
Aug 29, 2013 19:11:14 GMT -5
Post by spawnkill on Aug 29, 2013 19:11:14 GMT -5
I do MIG welding with aluminum at my job, and yes you're right it's about $700 for the cheapest one that I've see that has the capabilities that it needs. The only real stipulation for requirements on the welder itself is that it has to be a 200 amp welder. ALSO.... I just found out today how expensive aluminum sheets are. $100 for a 4'x8'x1/8" and almost $300 for a 4'x8'x3/16" sheet of aluminum. 1/8" would be more than enough for the majority of the skin of the tank the only real place I would use the 3/16" would be on the bottom of the tank as a skid plate, and at a rough estimate, using the Chevy S10 as a chassis, I would need about 10 sheets of 1/8" for the skin and turret and maybe 1 or 2 sheets of 3/16" for the skid plate on the bottom of the tank. So rough total for the tank fund right now? Just shy of $2,000. Well worth it I think if I can actually pull it off. Any thoughts?
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Tiger I
Aug 29, 2013 19:33:37 GMT -5
Post by hardboy on Aug 29, 2013 19:33:37 GMT -5
Go with high quality plyboard. That's cazy expensive.
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Tiger I
Aug 29, 2013 21:21:31 GMT -5
Post by SSBlackangel on Aug 29, 2013 21:21:31 GMT -5
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Tiger I
Aug 29, 2013 21:24:37 GMT -5
Post by SSBlackangel on Aug 29, 2013 21:24:37 GMT -5
you have to go on scaledtanks.com if you are going to do anything like this. With toxin as an engineer how could you go wrong? lol just messin that was too easy
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Tiger I
Aug 30, 2013 16:36:11 GMT -5
Post by spawnkill on Aug 30, 2013 16:36:11 GMT -5
Dude, I tried to get onto scaled tanks.com last night and it kept saying "no domains available". Don't know what that's all about. But yeah, and as far as the price yeah it might be crazy expensive but think about this as far as the truck goes there's not gonna be much left of it by the time we start building. The body? Gone. Drive shaft, suspension, transmission, steering column... all gone! only thing I'm gonna need is the engine to drive the hydraulic system which is going to drive the now 4 independent drive axles. the runners are all gonna be free mounted directly to the side of the body with their own separate suspensions. As far as the rest of the tank goes, how bad ass would it be to have @ a .75 scale Tiger I tank rolling around on the field looking as legit as it can possibly be? I'm willing to put that kind of time and money into it, just saying. I plan on this build taking at least 2 years and that's with mad dedication.
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Tiger I
Aug 31, 2013 16:22:06 GMT -5
Post by bobw on Aug 31, 2013 16:22:06 GMT -5
ScaledTanks.com is great, but has not had a completed project the size of a 75% Tiger. A 40% Tiger was recently completed. It looked very nice, sat 1 person and weighed 1,920 pounds. A 60% Walker Bulldog was started, but it did not complete due to the unfortunate passing of the builder. Here is the 40% Tiger.  Here is the 60% Walker Bulldog.  The Tiger 1 mentioned by SSBlackangel is very nice looking, but is different than a Scaled Tanks build - it is not quite to scale, but can hold 3 people. It also does not include a suspension. It uses car wheels as sprockets and road wheels in a very simple way. One of my favorite skin materials is 3/4" ACX plywood. I am using that, and my friend used it in his 40% Abrams, saying it was able to stay submerged in a bucket for weeks without warping, swelling, or delaminating. Here is his tank www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiq0DWaJCq4 It weighs 1,800 pounds and fits 1 person. |
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Tiger I
Sept 1, 2013 16:09:56 GMT -5
Post by spawnkill on Sept 1, 2013 16:09:56 GMT -5
Well that is all very impressive! I can only hope that this build will look half as good as any of these tanks. I can't say too much for my tank at the moment, but if I build it right, I'm guessing it'll weigh just about 2.000lbs. if not a little less, and can possibly sit (I'm hoping) 7 people; driver, forward gunner, turret operator and 4 passengers in the rear. Only reason that would work would be because the engine is going to remain in the front of the vehicle. But thinking about it now, if I'm stripping everything out of the truck and leaving just the chassis and engine remaining, I can probably flip the chassis around and not affect my forward and reverse drive, especially if I'm using a hydraulic skid steer system. I'd just have to make sure that I hook up the hydraulics the right way so that forward is forward and vise versa.
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Tiger I
Sept 1, 2013 20:21:05 GMT -5
Post by bobw on Sept 1, 2013 20:21:05 GMT -5
One of the problems with a fully-custom built tank is that they tend to weigh more than they could. A commercial truck frame has been engineered for great strength/weight. While a custom frame you want to overbuild whenever you're not comfortable. If I built a 75% Tiger to scale, I estimate it would weigh 12,000 pounds - 6 tons [Correction - I later figure about 7,000 pounds, instead]. I don't know how much the Paintball Tiger weighs, but I bet much less than that. Should be fun no matter what.
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Tiger I
Sept 2, 2013 12:41:33 GMT -5
Post by spawnkill on Sept 2, 2013 12:41:33 GMT -5
They way this tank is developing, it's gonna weigh very little. So, me and Toxin were consulting today and doing some research on some different things, and we ended up coming up with an alternative idea for a drive system. Instead of using hydraulics we're thinking about using an electric motor drive system powered by a generator. That would eliminate the need for the engine as well leaving just the chassis, which in turn would greatly cut down on the weight and the price too to be honest. Toxin is working on some of the details as far as requirements for the motors to be used and how much of a power supply we would need to make it work, which would let us know if it's a feasible idea or not. Personally I think that idea has more benefits than downfalls, just saying. It would also let us still obtain that skid steer type of driving that we're looking for as well.
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Tiger I
Sept 2, 2013 13:29:56 GMT -5
Post by bobw on Sept 2, 2013 13:29:56 GMT -5
This approach has been thought of. In fact, I had this idea before I started working on my tank. Some people have tried it on very small tanks. It sounds great for not worrying about drive shafts, chains, transmissions, clutches and all that. The generator/motor approach (while it was used in the real-life German Ferdinand/Elefant tank destroyer) has not worked out easily. The speed controllers are one issue, and the cost of the electric motors (if big enough) is another. The generator also may not be able to keep up with the current demands, and folks find that they need to include a large bank of batteries that is charged by the generator.
That is just my opinion - I am biased towards the mechanical solution of engine, clutch, transmission, chain, shaft. Another opinion I have is that skid steering puts much more stress on the frame, wanting to twist it up. A lot of strength is needed.
Another note is that the most expensive part of my tank build is turning out to be the basic steel material. My engine was only $300. My transmission, used from a private party only $600. Wheels only $20 apiece. Seats $50 each. Various bolts and nuts, I lost count. But the steel for the frame and suspension has been more than any of those. The steel for my tracks (based on a conveyor belt) will be a few hundred dollars itself. That is data from my tank which is 8 feet long, 5'10" wide, and 4'4" tall - it is estimated to weigh 1,300 pounds or so. My lower hull with engine, clutch, transmission and all drive chains and sprockets is almost 500 pounds.
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Tiger I
Sept 2, 2013 16:42:48 GMT -5
Post by hardboy on Sept 2, 2013 16:42:48 GMT -5
I love this thread. Keep it going.
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Tiger I
Sept 5, 2013 17:26:36 GMT -5
Post by spawnkill on Sept 5, 2013 17:26:36 GMT -5
Well, the electric drive system is a bust. Toxin did some math and the power requirement to move our vehicle with electric motors would be way too much. Even for a top end run of the mill generator. Your using steel for the structure of the your tank correct? Not the body? I was originally going to use steel but it weighs so much  That's why I decided on aluminum but that's for the body and probably the structure as well. Now obviously the frame is going to be partially made of steel considering I'll be using an actual truck as a chassis to build off of. But I'm confident in my building abilities to make a structurally sound vehicle combining steel and aluminum. As far as a price.... well it sucks I could probably make my own treads for a much cheaper price that it would be to buy a set of legitimate treads which cost @ $2,000 a set according to one source. Hydraulics for a skid steer, brand new, are @ $2,500 for the whole shebang according to one source. The aluminum for the whole tank, like I said before is just over $1,000, and, of course, I still need my welder which is @ $700 for the cheapest that I've found. I've got 3 people willing to put in money to help this thing along which helps for sure. And the price, if your enthusiastic like me, is not really that much, but it'll take some time to save up for sure. One day I'll get this build really rolling. |
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That's why I decided on aluminum but that's for the body and probably the structure as well. Now obviously the frame is going to be partially made of steel considering I'll be using an actual truck as a chassis to build off of. But I'm confident in my building abilities to make a structurally sound vehicle combining steel and aluminum. As far as a price.... well it sucks I could probably make my own treads for a much cheaper price that it would be to buy a set of legitimate treads which cost @ $2,000 a set according to one source. Hydraulics for a skid steer, brand new, are @ $2,500 for the whole shebang according to one source. The aluminum for the whole tank, like I said before is just over $1,000, and, of course, I still need my welder which is @ $700 for the cheapest that I've found. I've got 3 people willing to put in money to help this thing along which helps for sure. And the price, if your enthusiastic like me, is not really that much, but it'll take some time to save up for sure. One day I'll get this build really rolling.